Has viewer engagement changed the way video content is produced?

Michelle: Welcome. Hi, everybody. Top crowding the stage. Come forward if you can. Welcome everybody. Apparently you’re a TV versus online. If you’re in the wrong room, you’re stuck here now anyway. Thank you for joining us. We are streaming live on discoverability.ca. Apparently, the summit is trending in Canada. I’m not sure if you’ve heard about this. That’s big news, so congrats. We’re sitting here on this panel, and I’m going to introduce these charming gentleman to you all, and you’ll have pretty open conversation. We’re going to end with some Q&As as usual, but we’re going to go into some pretty interesting discussions.

Let me start with the introductions. To my left is the lovely and talented Mr. Robin Neinstein. Robin, I’m going to read over my cheat sheet. I’m going to be good. Production Executive Original, Digital, and Drama. Original Drama Content for Corus Entertainment, where supervises multiple scripted series for Global, Showcase, and History. He oversees such flagship dramas as the Vikings, HISTORY Canada’s top series, and an upcoming showcase series Travelers in partnership with Netflix. Previously he was with 20th Century Fox in Los Angeles.

He co-founded Toronto’s Productions and Media Headquarters. He’s worked with CBC Television on flagship dramas like Tudors, Being Erica, and Murdoch Mysteries. In 2012 you joined Shaw Media to oversee their development production, multiple script that entitles for global TV show case in HISTORY, as well as innovative original and digital content. We’re done. Okay. Next is Jeremy. Jeremy joins us from Entertainment Tonight Canada. Jeremy’s a digital content creator with extensive experience engaging online viewers on behalf of the brands, like Entertainment Tonight Canada, eOne Films, Cineplex Entertainment, Sharp Magazine, and Esquire.

He’s a host. He’s a writer. He’s a producer. He’s worked throughout North America and oversees, and he is the man on the next innovative trends for digital content production. We have imported all the way from Vancouver via Germany, Hamburg, Mr. Jonas Woost. Jonas is the Senior Digital Strategy Manager with TELUS Optik Local and Storyhive Since before we came to Canada in 2010, Jonas had a history background in music. He actually was in charge of all negotiations and relationship with music owners when CBS acquired Last.fm for $280 million in 2007. He’s at the cutting edge of this new technology, and since 2015 Jonas has been the senior digital strategy manager of TELUS Optik Local and Storyhive, which provides millions of dollars in funding as well exposure for Canadian filmmakers.

With over 12 billion in annual revenue, TELUS is one of the biggest telecommunication companies in Canada. Jonas has some interesting things to tell us about what’s happening out West. Welcome, thank you. Our topic is TV versus online. I am Michelle Alosinac. I am the Film Center Development Officer with the City of Toronto. I lead the strategic direction for film, TV, digital and animation for the City of Toronto. All right. Alice and Karl unfortunately cannot be with us, but Robin’s going to shoulder both peers for that. All right. The question that was posed in the brief was how has increased viewer engagement changed the way content is produced and how important is it to the success of the project.

The answer is lots and yes. We’re going to tell you how and why. Working under the assumption that everyone in this room is used to being the smartest person in the room, we’re going to anticipate some questions, provide some context, so as to what people are doing on different platforms, and offer case studies of the kind of content that people are heading towards. We’ll answer the burning questions at the end. Jeremy, we’re going to start with you. Before we talk about these overarching questions of viewer engagement, TV and online, can you give us sort of a brief one on one? What’s the basic tool chest of online platforms we’re going to be talking about and how do they work?

Jeremy: Online platforms that should be used today. Yeah. I think that you obviously have the major 3, like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, micro videos becoming a huge thing, brands starting to realize that they can connect with viewers on such more of an engaging level with applications like Vine and Snapchat, and now we’re looking towards the exciting unknown with live video. Look at how much of a buzz Periscope and Meerkat. Not Meerkat anymore, but Periscope made when it launched, and then Facebook live.

Now the brands are trying to figure out how to incorporate that new fun toy into their strategy, but from a serious standpoint, so I think there’s just a whole plate full of new toys, new tech platforms that are popping out there a couple of months, and it’s definitely exciting from a digital production perspective to not really be the kid who says, “I just have and used, all this was possible.” It’s more like wouldn’t it be cool to imagine how I can use that new toy or tech platform into my grand strategy. I think that’s what we’re going for.

Michelle: Across these different platforms, what is it that you get the most audience engagement from? Facebook I know is really strong for Vikings, because you have such a dedicated fan base. What are your kind of like, “These are the basics. We have to hit these.” They’re really successful for us.

Robin: It’s a good question. Facebook is without a doubt organized platform for video and video based engagement, which of course drama is so valuable. You can click something, and you share it. People can talk about it. It would be really satisfying when you’re dealing with big plot points, teasers, things leading up to an episode, things afterwards. It’s just a fantastic … If you were getting a platform. Twitter is great, but it …

Our digital team uses Twitter for very specific messaging. Specific bites of information. It’s not always as easy for to obviously interact with a tweet, but it can also be really valuable, especially when they get hugely viral and retweeted. That sometimes can be a bit more loose of.

Jonas: I think we are in the audio visual industry. We kind of blessed that the platforms that we mention in Facebook, Twitter. That didn’t start as videos and platforms. They’re all going to switch as [trial videos 00:08:04]. They’re really all focused on the video. It’s kind of good for us if we were working in the automotive industry right now talk about this. It wouldn’t be very fit necessarily. All of these platforms are really heavily focused in video because advertising revenues go in that direction.

From our point of view, those 3 to answer your question, I believe the focus was because various of things that were going on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram.

Michelle: We’re talking about online really is about increasing viewer engagement. That and all these value added platforms. That can be entirely new content or it can be in complementary content. You guys all offer different versions of that, so let’s say … Robin, the fun thing is about entrenching that fan base and that franchise. It’s about … It’s designed to draw. It’s designed for audience member. How is it important? How important is it for creative content production partner to be involved there? Can you talk about these 2 formats not being mutually exclusive for you?

Robin: Sure. Yeah. For us it draw … We can never take our audience for granted, not from one season. Never assume that because everyone shows up last season they will show up again. You have to constantly re-engage and shore up your fan base. It’s satisfying. You give them opportunities to engage with content in new ways every season. You can’t repeat yourself. For season 4 of Vikings … The Vikings has been a wonderful hit for us on history, and across a lot of our part of the platforms, but for the 4 season of Vikings we knew we weren’t going to have, say, the kind of paid media campaign that you would have when you’re launching a brand new series.

We still nearly had to do something really special, really big, to let the fans know that the show was going back, and to also tease a little bit of what was to come. Just re-engage them after a big off the air for a year. We came up with a really wonderful project called Vikings A World Reveal. That I’m glad to actually take that from that. You can get a sense of what it was.

Michelle: … (film starts)

Male: Join us on an epic journey into the world of Vikings, with exclusive interviews and behind the scenes access to the world of Vikings is revealed like never before. Leave these out there. We’ve had to shave the bloody acts.

Female: I try to bring as much as myself, interact with that. I think a lot of women can relate to us.

Male: Step inside our world.

Female: This is the great goal.

Male: Celebrate a brand new season by visiting the world reveal at history.ca/vikings. Prepare yourself.

Michelle: It’s cool. How was that received?

Robin: Yeah, we’re going to show a few of the different pieces of the campaign.

Female: We’re [working on their 00:11:00] to find our case. To be honest, we didn’t have- We hadn’t had really literally no reference to start off with. For every main [entree 00:11:08] to a board, and yes, absolutely, it’s taken from modern hairstyles, because you want the young audience. That’s where the punk hair styles come in, the undercuts, the shaving, the man were with the big hairs. One hair that I’d really like to use with us. If we ever get to use this. It’s kind of now on her head. I really am sad that I really don’t have Travis on my chair in the morning.

I’m going to shave his head and I’m going to shave his beard, 5 minutes. Here he is. Come in here. Yeah, [dear-wilskin 00:11:37]. Come in here and talk about your hair. This was my favorite hair style.

Male: Tray is the best.

Female: He’s my favorite.

Male: Here we are. This is where you do your office work, your accounting.

Male: That’s where I do my accounting yeah. The Wessex bills. We cover them here. You’re eating the fruit. That’s not real fruit.

Male: It is.

Male: I thought they’re stage fruit.

Male: The armory is responsible for all the weapons on the show. We look for references. Anything that will give us a fairly accurate picture and make our concept weapons. We then change the blade from bamboo.., so they’re running around all day with really lightweight weapons, which means they can work all day, and they can  go hell for leather.

Michelle: That feels it for me. That was sad.

Robin: Yeah, we have reached a 31 million with this campaign, and that’s enormous obviously, and well exceeded our expectations. It was a fantastic example of how to reach a lot of people across a lot of different platforms without the same resources of a major paid media campaign. We tried to think a lot about how can we do this off the top? How are we going to create an experience that is meaningful that people are going to share that’s going to transcend to any one platform. We knew we wanted to create an interacted experience.

We felt that that was going to be really important, especially because this was a digital initiative to have to offer something different from the linear experience. We wanted something that was really interactive and it was a terrific digital shop here called [GM 3 00:13:52] that we work with in creating this campaign and this initiative, a world reveal, which was both a website but it also featured a lot of content that we could then push out on many platforms.

Michelle: It’s cost-effective. You’re actually releasing momentum, because it’s cost-effective.

Robin: Yeah, it was platform agnostic. We created a home obviously. An interactive website on history.ca which enjoyed I think about half a million page views on its own. Actually that just pales in comparison to how many people we’ve reached, where we took these individual pieces of content, and then set them out across Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. We had a linear advertising campaign, which was pushed into the website, and they were on YouTube. They got shared tremendously, and I think that was a real lesson for us that wrapped …

Than only asking people to engage with this digital initiative on a specific website, we have the opportunity to create a lot of spin-off content that should really be embraced. We can reach just exponentially more people.

Michelle: That aggregate is the real win here.

Robin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Michelle: Yeah. What you’re giving people is more than a peak behind the curtain here. Giving them that personal connection. We were talking about how important it is if you’re going to delve into the digital stream, the automated stream, it has to be authentic. It has to be … It has to reach. It was to be relative to the audio. It’s because they have to be able to get into it and share it. That’s where the success comes, so Jonas maybe you want to speak to … Maybe a little bit about what’s happening out West with TELUS. You know we would have this discussion then.

TELUS is different out there than it is what we think perhaps.

Jonas: I’m sure a lot of you know this, but there might be a few people who don’t know this that over the West, TELUS is not just a cellphone company, and I’m sure you’re all TELUS subscribers in here. We’re also a BDU cable provider, an independent connection. As an example, we don’t have Rogers over in the West, for example with TELUS. What we did is that we have this mandate to support local filmmakers. We create local storage with local filmmakers. This, sort of the mandate is a 2-fold that is supporting the filmmakers. It’s telling local stories they’re not moving toward anywhere else.

We do that through a number of different programs, and it’s really shifted for us the way we do it. Traditionally, we would have just made stuff and put it on to our BOB service. The TELUS BOB service. That was kind of back in the days, but since then we realized that what we’re really trying to do is make an impact for the filmmaker’s film communities. In order to do that they want to reach an audience. I thought that’s okay. That’s an audience we’ve focused on our BOB service, because we have lots of subscribers, following subscribers. It’s fantastic. It’s really good.

There are a lot of other people in Western Canada, actually all over Canada. Actually all over the world that might be interested in it. A local story about surfing in Tofino. That’s really amazing stuff in the Tofino. We begin like a big startup, and we realize, “We want to find the audience.” Sort of goes back to your point rather. Realizing that we need to go where the audience is and social fast. It’s a huge, huge thing that we don’t even … We have a website, but I never even … I don’t go to another website, because I can ask people to come to my website. It’s cool, but people are already on Facebook.

They’re already on Twitter. They are already on these stuff, why don’t they just go where they have. It seems to be like a little more straightforward, and so we put a lot of emphasis on reaching the people. With our media project, reaching them where they are and sort of to the earlier question that is for us launching Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Did that answer your question or are you sure?

Michelle: Yeah, I think so. We’re talking about an immediacy that you’re getting from this online world. Reward system actually is what we have. For something like Vikings you’ve got this longer term engagement that you’ve had. You’re sustaining it. You’re rewarding. You’re building on your fan base and you’re able to leverage that across multiple platform so it actually becomes cost effective. For ET Canada, you’re working under 24-hour clock. You have to be current. You have to be now. That information has to go and not a lot of people are going to go back to that saying the way that they may go back and just look dreamily at one of their favorite actor’s eyes on Vikings.

For you, that information is immediate and it goes out. That’s your goal. Talk about how different that is to try to create that kind of … Some of the strategies you’ve used to create that immediacy, that currency.

Jeremy: First of all, what you were saying about being mindful that some of your viewers may not be going back to your website. Sometimes they’re a fan, of your brand, but only on Facebook, only on YouTube. I think that’s something that brands don’t really realize today. That it’s almost like an insult to admit that maybe a social platform is more popular than their main online destination website. I think it’s just so important to treat all these initiatives, whether putting your brand on Facebook or Instagram, or Twitter, or even Snapchat gets to realize that the viewer there is going to resonate with the content that you’re putting on that platform.

Maybe your goal maybe to try and redirect them back to the Motherland, but to them Snapchat, your Snapchat channel on the application is the Motherland to them. You just have to accept that and just create its own ecosystem there. As far as what our video is like, creating online content, for ET Canada as a digital property, it’s really … I would say it’s about trying to overcome that challenge of putting out such an abundance of content on Twitter and Facebook and realizing that especially on Twitter, even though it’s later, it’s kind of lost.

Michelle: It’s almost instantly obsolete as soon as it gets out.

Jeremy: Exactly. Snapchat it’s literally gone after 24 hours, but Twitter it’s there, but it’s just … It gets lost, and you suddenly have to start thinking about how to create a content that’s a bit more engaging and be mindful of the way that you’re packaging your content, your social post, just like best practices with thumbnails, and headlines, and then really understanding their social platform that you’re using. I think just through trial and error. You really have to be consistent with it.

Michelle: Try to look more. Now this is something that I’m finding interesting. Everyone says, “Oh. Digital world, wild wild west. Go. Risk. Do it. Jump in. Talk to people. Make things happen. There is no right. There is no wrong.” There is wrong.

Jeremy: Yes, there is wrong, but I think that some of my personal successes whether it be as myself as a digital creator or with ET Canada, a digital brand, it’s really been through trial and error. Not looking at a rule book. Some of these new applications or platforms on social media do not really have a set guide of, “This is what you do. This is what you don’t do. This is how to find success.” This is how to probably create a collaboration and social influencer. Sometimes there is no rule book, and you really have to take initiative to take a risk sometimes.

Obviously being mindful of what the consequences could be, but most of the time you just go through trial and error and realize, “Okay, that thing didn’t really get as much engagements as we thought, but hey, we tried it, and now we can say what does not work.” So failures good. To save everybody a little bit of failure, I think what the idea that these online digital, the other world, that’s all about communication. The same way traditional television is, but if you are posting something on Snapchat, and you’re not sharing, then you’re failing. If you’re on Facebook and you’re not sharing, you’re failing.

You have to use your hashtags. You have to have compelling content that is going to go out or it’s not going to work. It doesn’t matter if you talk to the best people in the industry. You have the best-looking something. It might just be living in your pocket, so that’s something that we need to talk about too. I think is creating that content is … Then we’ve got 3 different sort of models in the way of the financing. That’s always something that … That’s coming up I know later. I saw that, about the financing, but we’d be re-missive if we didn’t sort of address a little bit about …

It’s expensive. Production is expensive, and as you were talking. You come from the world of music, and now you’re at a … It’s very different, but now you’re at a giving scenario, where you’re actually throwing money and finds that it is now [part of BC 00:23:04] so don’t go look. Chase the stage. To find, hunt down Jonas for his money, but tell us a little bit about the different rules.

Jonas: First I’m going to have to … We’re not throwing money at anyone. [crosstalk 00:23:17] Yeah, I had to … I had to speak to that. What was the question? The differences to music? You want to make …

Michelle: We’re talking about music and how it’s cheap to produce some things. Take $10,000, and then how costly it is to your production. We’ll talk a little bit about …

Jonas: I’ve been in music my whole life until 1 year ago. There was a few things in music that were just … I never really thought of it like the cost of production. In music, that’s just not really a problem. Yeah, if you can get a record.  Back in the day it was a little different when you need money to go into the studio and get a mastered and everything, but now you can make it very, very professional sounding record that can go to number 1 in the charts for I don’t want to say the wrong number, but if you have $20,000 – $30,000, you can get that up there with film.

10X, 100X, 300. In terms of the financing is so vastly different, and then the same with the distribution as well. I think one of the key reasons was like music can go into that sort of that some people call it digital revolution. Whatever you want to call it. Earlier it was just because it was just possible that kind of places and then mp3. It’s just a thing. We all remember our moments when we first downloaded that mp3 from NASA. I remember that took 15 minutes and you were like, “Oh, my God. 15 minutes. Why so?” That was just possible then, but film was just wasn’t possible. Maybe that was the differences.

Michelle: Yeah, and Storyhive now. This TELUS, what they’re doing is that they’re investing in filmmakers. That’s the way. That’s the intention of Storyhive, right?

Jonas: That’s correct, yeah. We’re investing in filmmakers, but in a way that the returns are not supposed to go to us, and they’re not going to us. They’re going to the filmmakers. What we’re really trying to do with the Storyhive, which is … We’re throwing money. They’re giving money to filmmakers, and part of our Storyhive program it’s sort of community-based and we’re allowing the community, the audience to vote on who should receive funding from us. It really allows us to not only get everyone’s input, because it’s useful point of interactions like that, but actually knew about this whole thing about building the community before they even make the film.

There’s already a community of thousands, tens of thousands of people that have voted for this. They invested already. It’s kind of like Kickstarter where when you fund something to Kickstart, you already have that community of people that gave you money, but don’t take money from the audience, but there is this community building. That’s my point. The idea is that we … As part of Storyhive, we are investing in these filmmakers so they make great, great content. What we really want to them to take that content somewhere else, or to make sure they convey the news of news for what’s basing this.

The investment is really … Investing into filmmakers for them to have a sustainable career in film in Canada. In fact the world. Anywhere. That’s totally fine for us, so the investment is not going to come back to us, and it’s totally fine. Hopefully they’ll not forget us. I always make the joke with the filmmakers. I want one day for them to not return my phone calls anymore. I want for them to say, “Oh, Mister Jonas. I’m too busy now. I’m now playing with the big guys.” That would be the results. The results technically we’re intended They’re now in Hollywood. They’re now doing nothing.

Then we’re getting that anecdotal. We hear that a lot when because of they make a film. We give them $10,000 to make a short film. It’s not a lot of money, but it helps to make with their first production ever. They can then take somewhere else, and we get a lot that because of that they get jobs here, or they travel here, and then they go to festivals.

Michelle: IP is so important to our industry. Being able to own our own intellectual property, being able to create that environment. That sustains a creative sector, keeper of community. Then we’re going to look at Jeremy now. Jeremy you’ve come up with your … What was it we call it? With your find?

Jeremy: Yes.

Michelle: Your Find campaign for during the award season, so this is a great look at how to do something immediate that’s fun, because of course social media, a lot of that it should be fun. That’s how engage people, a lot of it. If it’s not humor, it’s … It may be a personal connection, but maybe Jeremy has something you’re going to show about how they manage to create something that was not high expense, but have a very big impact for their for their brand.

Jeremy: Yeah. It’s a great transition to what you were saying about cost effective, just because when we think about the micro video in this story end, brands are kind of like all the fans. Even if it’s a newer brand, all the fans are diving into these short form videos and the production it takes, the ideas it takes, and you realize, “Well, for us, some of these videos on Vine which we’re getting a really strong push with it over the past year and a half, could take maybe 20 minutes of editing and blow up to 100, a couple hundred thousand views for cost of less than nothing. We decide to like I said before, take a risk, better trial and error, and look into Vine as a platform.

We first really tried to use seriously last film festival here in TIFF to highlight the most chaotic moments of the red carpet, because I think at that point, we’d realize that a lot of entertainment brands cover TIFF, it’s a lot of ideas are almost exhaustive. We’re trying to figure out how can we … What’s the next thing we can reach kind of topic from last year, and then Vine started going up, and we realized, “Well, what if we use this 6-second byte platform that’s on a loop, which is so key.” Say, “We just want to show the most chaotic moments of fans screaming for George Clooney.” We were lucky that the film that we had was this beautiful, sexy, 5D footage.

We just have this whole compilation of little video bursts from the festival of we call it TIFF Hysteria. These little bite-size moments like that, which is great, and after that, we started thinking, “Hey, well. There are now these Vine stars that are emerging from this platform. Why don’t we start collaborating with them?” We started dabbling in that category. Then while we’re …

This past 2016 award season we thought, “Well, why don’t we take it one step further? Let’s really create a 3-way collaboration between a Vine influencer, a mainstream Hollywood celebrity, and then us as the producer creating a comprehensive narrative series from multiple episodes that will almost complement ET Canada’s award season broadcast coverage?” We luckily enlisted the help of Mister Alan Thicke, Canada’s favorite TV dad. He’s just such a smart and easy to work with individual, and he helped leave this boot camp narrative that we’ve created.

Michelle: This is a boot camp on how to survive award season. You have some clips for us?

Jeremy: We do if the WiFi is working. Fingers crossed.

Michelle: All digits crossed. Let’s see.

Jeremy: It is not, so …

Michelle: You have to act it out. You have to pull it off.

Jeremy: That’s … I cannot do Alan Thicke justice, but basically we got Alan Thicke, and then we got a Vine influencer whose name is Brittlestar. He goes by the name Stuart Reynolds. He has 2 sons who are also Vine stars, so it’s always like this social star family. We had Alan Thicke teaching the social star family online in many episodes how to survive the awards season. It would be an episode in 6 seconds of how to smile on the red carpet, how to take care of your award show trophy, and what’s from the Golden Globes until the Oscars.

We found that fans really resonated with it, because if someone wins during the award show and suddenly we released the video, tweet it out, and it’s a tip on how to polish your award show trophy but in a comical way.

Michelle: How many hits did you get?

Jeremy: We got approximately 2 million views for that series. We got play on series at XM radio. It was definitely a first initiative for us, and I think for Vine itself I think we were the first Canadian to rebrand to take on that narrative initiative.

Michelle: This is obviously something that ET is going to continue?

Jeremy: I hope so, yeah.

Michelle: This kind of creative engagement, the idea that we’re going to have fun with this. Six seconds of fun, and stick around. There’s going to be another 6 seconds of fun.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Michelle: I think we still have to look that up online. ET online. Now, you’re in an interesting position here. With Vikings it’s a [co-part 00:32:08].

Jeremy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Michelle: What does that allow you in the way of access of funding for the … First the ancillary complementary.

Jeremy: Yeah. Because we are a production partner on Vikings, we’re able to work really closely with the … All the creative teams on the show, and all the talent involved in the show to make some special, exclusive content that  no one else has access to, and that’s invaluable, because having something exclusive, that is truly available in one place. Or from one outlet really helps you standout. With this project, we’ve really put a lot of thought into the voice of the project, and making sure it was authentic and keeping with the actual look and feel of the show that was in touch with what fans were interested in knowing a lot more about.

That featured the actors that they love, and we could only have done that as a production partner. We spent a week over in Arlington shooting this, and it would have been impossible to do if it was a different kind of relationship. A more removed relationship. It’s quite … They adored it.  Let us on all the sets, and the casts were extremely generous. I want to pick up on a point that came up earlier now, which is the importance of trial and error, when you are creating this digital content, when you are looking to enhance your engagement.

If you’re creating one piece of content, and only release to get on one platform, that puts a lot of pressure on that single initiative, and what I think about this project. This breakthrough created 12 to 15 pieces of content and then put them all out across …

Michelle: Dispersed them.

Jeremy: Probably I’m going to guess 8 to 12 platforms. It was fascinating, because some did not take and some did. You learn from that, and you can respond to that as you go. For example, [Catherine Analytics were shared. Catherine of course is one of our favorite stars on the show, and her audience is so social, and enthusiastic, and text savvy, that she was just fantastically … It raised, and her videos were shared. It’s interesting to see that engagement. We were able to then enhance that, and augment that, and help satisfy those fans further.

Michelle: Sometimes what you’re doing is you’re sending out the message to the wrong … Some of it gets picked up, but also you get haters, when you get online. You get haters on TV as well, and then when we’re working for the broadcasters member and here at the City of Toronto and somebody complains, that carries a lot of weight versus the 5,000 people who come out to watch Suicide Squad at 10 at night, when we close down the street. 5,000 people are shouting and we had no complaints, but 1 complaint carries a lot of weight. We love the haters, though because the haters helped to decide how to steer your content.

Is that fair sometimes?

Jeremy: It’s like what if you had nobody reacting? You only have positive or capable contents, but there was just no reaction. I think that if you do have negative comments, one way to look at is these are passionate fans. They are taking the opportunity to really go on Twitter and voice their opinion. Maybe their opinion doesn’t really make sense, or their opinion feels too aggressive, but … End on that note.

Male: Very impressive.

Michelle: This is not a drill.

Jeremy: Just going to wait for the pool. Anyways, I think that it’s important … We need to have both positive and negative opinions. To me you look at … and remember someone who is analyzing a viral YouTube video. They were saying how it has 400,000 views, but there was no interaction. There was no likes. There was no dislikes. There was no comments, and so we pointed out, “Well, that’s so really … It seemed like a successful video.” There was no interaction from the viewer. Whereas, I think that they have a couple of hundred dislikes and a couple of hundred more likes, at least you know it. Okay, we’re starting a conversation here.

I think that’s the goal of any news broadcasters. They want to start a conversation.

Michelle: You’re inviting people to come and watch what it is you’ve created. You need that feedback to know how to respond. You create something that is going to challenge you, that is going to be rewarding in a progress that goes back. That is the same for traditional broadcast as it is for our online world.

Jonas: The thing we had to focus on what we say, but we knew we’re doing a lot of sort of actual content, and this especially when we deal with subject matters that we create that online discussions. We always know like now we’re on to something. Clearly what we’re creating some sort of change. On Facebook, we see a lot of people from both sides of the debate, debating off the web. Often that they knew because it falls out a bit. It was big news about the LGBT marriage legalisation Obviously there’s no debate around that. There shouldn’t be any debate. There was still a debate online, which is somewhat just happening right at the same time offline for me.

Okay, we’re still touching on something that still needs to be debated. Okay, I’m happy that we’re positive, and part of pointing people in the right direction when it comes to that debate.

Michelle: It stopped. The other thing that often comes up is everybody is being told you have to have digital content, your traditional programming. The thing that always comes in. Okay, how am I supposed to do this and talk of all the … It’s just tracking between the gaps. That’s a common thing. The answer is it’s impossible.

Jeremy: Somebody upstairs purposely …

Male: [crosstalk 00:38:35] to remain calm. Stand by for further instruction. May I have your attention please.

Michelle: It’s zombie horn circuit.

Male: May I have your attention please. This is hotel management. An alarm has been activated in the building. The Toronto fire department have been notified and is on their way. Please do not elevators, remain calm. Stand by for further instruction.

Michelle: All these people are watching as we’re streaming online.

Jeremy: I remember we’re in [hard-line 00:39:02] when the elevator stopper working at Thompson.

Michelle: What I was trying to propose is who does all this work? That’s the question. Are you supposed to do it on top of your regular programming?

Robin: We don’t view that this is as something irregular. It’s something that really is necessary on any kind of flagship drama. Older dramas are really flagships, because they’re a significant investment. It’s critical that after going online you show some suspicion on … If you were talking of the specs to have some kind of ability to access and engage with us in this 24/7, in some kind of 360 capacity. It doesn’t mean that you always have to create a traffic website. You have to constantly be acknowledging and engaging that some way, even between the week.

It’s not just Thursdays at 10. It’s everyday of the week, in between, leading up, and thereafter. For us, we don’t view that as something separate from the show. The show of course has to be I guess amazing as it can be, but you can’t … Either you also have to offer these digital inspections. It’s really critical.

Michelle: You have to offer it on the terms of the audience is really what they’re hearing. They’re not going to be watching it most of them at 10 o’clock on a Thursday. They’re going to watch when they feel like. That’s the advantage of PVRs. It’s the advantage of digital streaming. Now most of you know. We’ll talk just briefly about things like the Netflix, the Hulus, the new world order. TV especially in Canada is highly regulated, and online it’s free. Or it’s a non-subscription fee, and it’s pioneer country, so there is a system, and the system is you have to create content that globally competitive, and you have to try to diversify it as much as possible. Something that people probably have heard that Star Trek is coming to Toronto. Did you guys hear this?

Robin: The TV is shooting here.

Michelle: The TV show is shooting here. It’s Star Trek The Next Voyage is going to be shooting here in Toronto, and that’s a CBS show. They’re doing something really interesting about how they’re going to be drawing out this content. They know they have a global fan base. They also know that they own the whole backlog of all the CBS. Of all the Star Trek. They already know that moving forward they have a franchise. It’s going to work. They are releasing the pilot on CBS, on their broadcast, and then from then on, the rest of the series is going to release all their CBS …

Male: May I have your attention please. May I have your attention please.

Michelle: Here we’re all ears. All attention. All this attention. They’re going to be releasing all subsequent episodes on their all access in the US, and that is for 5.99 a month, you can watch …

Male: [crosstalk 00:42:12] Elevator service will resume charge shortly.

Michelle: What a relief. Everybody wanted just to have stormed the elevators. This is a really interesting new model. This is going to be affecting how Rogers, TELUS, Shaw, how regular broadcasters are looking at this new online world. Did you guys heard that this is what’s going to be rolling out with them? What’s your thoughts?

Male: Star Trek fans are going to be thrilled, and I seeing it rebooted. It’s interesting. That’s a new global strategy for CBS, and I think we’re seeing all kinds of new release patterns emerging, and I think we’re looking very much at what we can do in Canada. There are a lot of different kinds of platforms, different ways to launch new material. Different ways to get people to discover something brand new. As you were saying launching it on one service, and then pushing it to another. That’s a critical part of launching something brand new. You want to get as many people the opportunity to sample that.

Hopefully love it, and then find it in the home where it’s ultimately destined to live.

Jonas: I can’t really speak to that specific example, because I didn’t know that was they’re going to do that with Star Trek, but I think what … What I’m guessing what they’re trying to do is what we’re already discussing is to have a sort of audience centric approach, as opposed to protecting things the way they are. Or because they were always like this or they work in existing business models. We have think about where is the audience actually. That’s the best way to release it first here and then there.

Then good for them. I don’t know if that’s going to be the best way, but they’re going to find out to find out.

Jeremy: That’s ought to be the registering event. From a viewer’s perspective, “Bravo. That’s pretty cool. That’s something that you haven’t really seen before.” The only first thing that I’m thinking is you better have a killer pilot just to introduce that or else, they’re not … From what I’m curated, they have to subscribe to the rest of the series.

Jonas: Yeah, but then when we talk about these kind of examples, it’s very easy to talk about soundtrack. They already have that big following where they can get away with things that 99.9% of the other producers, in fact even more in the world, think they can’t really launch something new. That’s a completely different strategy. It’s still audience focused, but to kind of lock it away, you have to sign up to something that will be quite difficult. I think we’d like to do that. Always come up with these sort of these examples. That might not necessarily work for everyone.

Michelle: Yeah. It can be a canary in the mines too. First one to go out see how it goes. I think. Yes, we’re going to get into Q&As. Big timing. Please.

Jonas: I think we’re going to have to wait for them.

Michelle: You might come and [Stephen 00:45:05] out? Here he comes.

Female: My question has to do with the term engagement. I think from a public service perspective, the title of the panel Television versus Online implies that Television old school wasn’t engaged or didn’t allow for engagement. Online has all these new engagement tools, which I wouldn’t quibble with. When I think of public service broadcasting in the class of CBC or community broadcasting, always have ways to engage viewers, like with the founding shows or even today if we think of cross Canada check up, it’s still a hugely popular format, where Canadians can call and hear one another on the telephone,  To debate content.

That kind of engagement meant that the viewers become part of the content of the shows. The cross country checkups about what Canadians think, or community medias about bringing in studio panels and people get to produce, be part of the production process. It’s a really … There always has been the possibility for deep level engagement and content. My question might be yes, there’s a lot more tools we can use to do that. People can upload their own videos easily. They can text. They can engage in online chats.

Is the engagement that you guys are talking about, about putting viewers at the center of the content or is it really just getting viewers on multiple platforms? Engaging with them after the fact, I guess. What’s the quality of the engagement I guess is my question. Are there new tools improving a depth in quality or is it like in the old days? It just comes back to your intent as a producer, if you really want your audience in the middle of the show. What are you trying to do with your production?

Robin: It’s a good question and in a lot of ways the genre that you’re working in is going to dictate to what extent the viewers can be part of the content specifically with news or documentary or reality. That’s not to say this is easier that is scripted and the challenge to drop the audience specifically into perhaps the show itself, but at the same time there are a lot of other ways to engage. I think you have to really tailor that engagement to the specific genre that you’re working in.

Jeremy: I think it’s also about knowing where … First of all, what your target demographic is today compared to way back when, and something that I think we’ve all mentioned we use. Using the corporate and the platforms that you know your audience is there. If you know that you have a decent following on Twitter, for me personally, I feel much more engaged to tweet him my opinions to a talk show rather than pick up the phone and call a number and get into a conversation. It also could just be the way that technology has affected us over the past 5 years, where many people are not all clamoring to get into a one on one voice conversation.

Sometimes we feel our new form. Obviously the conversation is through social media interaction I think that if we’re trying to capitalize that.

Jonas: From our point of view, it works a little differently, because any person or piece in our project is eligible for doing 2 types of funding. In our case, the audience can take and become a filmmaker. No problem, and we do this all the time. We work with people that have very little experience in filmmaking, so because of the modeling, everyone and engagement. I think what he was hearing, what he was suggesting is that things haven’t changed that much. That there was always engagement, call in shows. You can always send a letter to the editor. You can always get feedback.

You can always be a hater or not. You can always do all these things. At the festival he was suggesting, and I kind of agree with you to be honest. I think the game is still the same, but the tools are sharper.

Jeremy: Yes.

Jonas: Anyway, we know what I mean. It’s just like that sharing. It’s just … Sharing, for example, that is always the way we all talk about stuffs. Now I’m telling you, you’ve got to watch this film. Now I’ll do this online. Now I’ll do this really quickly online. I’ll just really get snow balled. It’s always a little faster, but the mechanisms of recommending content and giving feedback and telling your friends about it, and maybe not like in visual, making that voice, your opinion heard has always been about. It’s not like the main method is something completely new.

Michelle: There’s a technology to scale that is really advanced, that kind of communication engagement.

Robin: The scale is feed. You get instant feedback across many platforms at once, but it can be a lot to take in, and it’s important to take it all in. To pay attention to all of that, to be responsive.

Michelle: Question? Stephen up. You.

Male: I have a question. Hello. Question for Robin. As you see some of the content that you create as you just kind of cut that up and distribute it online, like the Vikings piece that you show. Are there instances where you’re starting to see some of that content that you’ve shown online compete from an engagement stand point. In terms of views with some of your broadcast ratings, and if  so in terms of number of people that are seeing piece of content versus an episode. If so, what type of ramifications or what type of disruption is that causing in terms of from a revenue of a production model.

Robin: I guess the short the answer is no, we don’t see this additional content that we’re launching on these various platforms as competing with some of the core shows. We see them really as being complimentary, and giving people a chance to just engage on a broader level, at their own time, and their own speed. They can watch 2. They can watch one, or they can watch all 12. They can watch them over the course of the week, and it’s not necessarily interfering. We’re just glad that they’re engaging with … With the shows and this digital content.

They’re really sorting out when they want to watch those given pieces.

Michelle: We have another question. Gentleman in the front.

Male: Just a comment on the Star Trek. It strikes me that in a world where if you don’t necessarily open your product, particularly in Canada, where you license it. I’d be rather concerned about the CBS model getting traction to where they say, “Hey, you know what? We can make as much money off of directly feeding our audience.” Simultaneous substitution that’s a must. We get some money from that, and it’s been a big pocket of breakthrough the US distributors have or to potentially have. That would be a concern to a country like ours.

Where so many of our broadcasters don’t own their product.

Michelle: Yeah, it’s true. It’s a new model. Let’s see how it goes and see how it impacts. We’re in a time of reckoning right now. With the technology changing, with the rules changing, with the engagement happening. It’s a time that really has to focus on our own creative IP. That’s really important for all of our domestic industry in Canada. To sustain us as creative cities, as a global creative industry’s marketplace.

Robin: What we’re seeing is a lot of new opportunities and financing laws are emerging for content, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but there will be some  that  excludes  certain arrangements, but they’re all also … I find something more new opportunities that I think more doors are opening than closing. For example, we have this new show, which you mentioned earlier. Travelers, which is a partnership that we’re doing with Netflix. This is a show created by Canadians, produced by Canadians, it’s shooting up in Vancouver right now.

It’s started here in the format. It’s been great. This is a really interesting partnership for us, because Netflix is taking in many territories outside of Canada, but in Canada this is going to be a wonderful flagship new drama for Showcase, and this was a way that the producers were able to get the show made. That’s just one example of how sometimes there are doors that are actually opening and we’re evaluating each model as a potential opportunity.

Michelle: And you said some important things that you think that looks great?

Robin: Yes.

Michelle: The content is interesting. It’s now. Can you tell us a little bit about the … Just like, “Give us a tagline on.”

Robin: There are some people among us, and they are … They’re here from another kind of place, and they are I cannot talk too much more. I have to look online. I think we’ve released a little bit of information, but …

Michelle: Look online. That’s the answer to everything.

Robin: Speaking up, we’re already thinking about very big questions as to how are we going to get people on the way of liking the show. It’s probably not going to debut for at least 6 to 9 months, but we already as a team, our digital team, our marketing team, were working very closely with the producers to think about how do we get people already on the way of this brand new show, which as you were saying is so much … It’s very difficult to launch. It doesn’t have a pre-existing …

Michelle: Ground zero.

Robin: Fan base like something like Star Trek. We are excited about that.

Michelle: Yeah.

Robin: People as much as there’s some really dominant brands that already grab people, there’s always appetite for that new really exciting interesting idea. It has to be distinctive, and this is. We’re already thinking about how to use digital extensions, social, to get people on the way and excited about this brand new project, and it’s …

Michelle: This holistic approach.

Robin: Absolutely. It’s already well underway, 9 months in advance of launch.

Michelle: Question?

Male: Hi, there. While social media does have the ability to increase social and community engagement, you did touch upon it, but how do you streamline your messaging and as well achieve relevancy amongst the midst of so many contributors and content creators?

Jeremy: You mean I guess a part of your own team?

Male: As a part of your own team or your individualized brand.

Jeremy: If you’re … We’re talking about your own team, and obviously making sure that everyone’s on the same page for a really thorough digital strategy is so key. A lot of brands I find retrieved social management or community management just have just a bunch of people kind of have access to the social accounts, but maybe they don’t have social media experience. Maybe they don’t understand really best practices? As a result, you can see just a lot of inconsistencies with the brand tone and messaging on something compared to … A Facebook post compared to Twitter or a way that you’re posting something to YouTube.

Obviously, yeah, making sure that everybody’s on the same page and understands that basic one on one guideline rule book. The same way if you were managing the editorial components of a website’s, make sure all your writers know this is … We’re adhere to see this style. Just make sure what kind of … Your managers know what kind of style you’re adhering to for social media. I think that to kind of answer your question, how to stay relevant or for stake out more like the …

Michelle: We talked about this too. We talked about you can’t be generic.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Michelle: You have to have a really distinctive voice that you have to bring to it. Something tells me that we didn’t touch on that might be. What about influencers? Does it pay to have an influencer these days? On some of these projects?

Jeremy: Yeah, I think that influencer collaboration has definitely been a really fun experience for us and into kind of the .com because we’ve enabled again through trial and error, but not so much error, just through figuring out what … Kind of works and those that work really well. Realizing that the rule book for how to work with influencers isn’t really … Doesn’t really exist on every single platform, so a bit about what you’re talking about you need to be shown kind of just trying to take initiatives, see which platform works.

It’s sort of like when not to take initiative and either brand that other brands are either talking about months or years from now to say like, “I’m practicing my technique, because of let’s say what that show Travelers do with their digital strategy, because they tried it out and it seems like they knew what they were doing.” I think that for social collaborations it does pay off, because you are first of all tapping into their audience, and you’re introducing your audience to a star on the platform. If we’re talking about Vine, and we have our own Vine following, and then we’re suddenly partner with someone like [Brittlestar 00:58:41].

It immediately gives us a bit more credit. It’s definitely great to establish these partnership within the ecosystem, and it allows us to I guess explore the rapid use of content creation.

Jonas: One thing that you mention about credibility and authenticity. When you work together with a Vine influencer or YouTube creator, or [multiple 00:59:08] personalities. I think it’s a bit of a hype thing in our industry. We’re like, “Oh, we should get an influencer, because that’s how we do it now.” That’s something that’s actually not an easy. We have to finally fit authenticity from both sides. If you work with any influencer that has quite a bit of a following, that’s the first thing they’re going to say, “I’m not just going to put your product where you think.”

Even if the product is an entertainment product in my … They’re not going to do that. I think so. It also has to work the other way around, where you might have to pay for this. It could be very expensive working with these creators. They have to make sure they actually brings authenticity also to your brand or your product or your entertainment. Just as an example, we were looking … Do the same thing of a West Coast, looking at some sort of local creators, and influencers, and there’s very talented people out there.

We realized that a lot of … Just give me an example but it didn’t work for us. Was that a lot of the people that we were sort of looking at, they weren’t filmmakers. They were same with cooking thing. Cooking YouTube stuff as like what follows. Really at first we wanted to be chef, and the YouTube thing was just one  outlet for them, which was fantastic, but we want to work with filmmakers, so that wasn’t really clear that that person have the intent to go further their career as a filmmaker. They wanted to be a YouTube channel. They wanted to be a chef. Does that make sense?

I’m just giving you an example. It just didn’t work for us, because we wanted to support filmmakers. They have their people out there, and we are in front of people working with some people. Just try to feel this straight that it’s actually quite hard to find someone that fits into your spec. To find someone, a YouTube influencer, or a YouTube creator that fits into your strategy is actually a lot of work.

Jeremy: For sure.

Michelle: The question maybe also that don’t just put content out there, just because you feel you have to fill that void, because that’s an easy way to lose folks. They’re going to drive to your site, to your platform, if you have something interesting to say, unique. You have a view that is relatable and that is … Steal from the best. That’s what this whole industry is about. Steal from the best. Find out what people are doing that is successful, and how could you put a spin on that. Your spin on it.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Robin: Yeah, we talked about how important it is to have a lot of content on a multiplicity of platforms, but you don’t want to go so far as to start throwing spaghetti to a wall. Just seeing what’s next, because that can be really dangerous. You have to really know your voice, and be true to that voice. Have that be consistent across all the content. We’re really cautious about that with this campaign, and I think back even so that we first launched season 1 of Vikings. A lot of people … We’re starting to think about the show, but they hadn’t seen anything yet. They didn’t really know what it was, and some of what they came up with …

This is varying ideas where more a kind of joking leads, more like the  horned helmets and Hagar the Horrible kind of Saturday morning cartoon kind of concept, which we quickly let go of. People let go of the moment they saw the show. Because this was a show that really took these people seriously, as human beings, and people who can deeply feel something for and relate to, and  this … That kind of tonality just did not work. I think you have to be very cautious about a voice. When you do get that voice right, it could be so powerful.

I think we mentioned this before. Some time ago, but at a previous broadcaster that I worked at we were launching a new show, and we had 2 campaigns. One was very expensive, and it was really conceptual and a lot of people came up … A lot of wonderful talent to creating this really cool website, and then on the other hand, at an extremely low cost, the show runner of the show. This was the very early days of social media, created a Facebook page for the lead character in the show. Not the actors, but the character and started writing and updating it in the actual character’s voice that was totally authentic.

Because it was a show runner who is just having a great time, and you heard that she was the one typing. This was totally authentic to the show. Of course, of the 2 initiatives, which one exploded? The Facebook page that cost almost nothing. This other very … This beautiful piece actual site is not really what people wanted to engage with. That was a real lesson on how critical it is to be true to the voice of the show and the love that have been given are getting serious.

Michelle: Yeah, there’s a universe of choices out there, so what’s going to make yours feel like you care about what your audience is going to be watching, being a part of. I’m trying to be mindful of the time. How long are we doing here?

Robin: 5 minutes.

Michelle: Five minutes. Any other questions? Good.

Male: Imagine I guess. I was trying to imagine someone who watches a TV show and isn’t that interested in what’s happening online. Is there still an effort to drive from TV to online or is there an effort? Maybe is there any risk associated with that to the broadcast I guess is how I … Maybe put it that way. Or do you do it? Is there any drive at all? Do you care or is that person just left to the TV show?

Jeremy: I’ll now put it together. We definitely to make a conscious action to point digital elements into the news broadcast to drive to either what’s trending online or what’s trending on etcanada.com. I think it’s obviously pretty important to make sure. I think viewers are much more engaged these days when the broadcast has digital elements. I think it’s like you said, they want that 360 experience. They want to. I want to be able to watch the Oscars in your linear experience, but then also have my mobile device and have my laptop up and see how the Oscar brand is interacting with me on social media.

Maybe there is a value added video on the Oscars website. I think yeah, there is for us we definitely try to incorporate our digital brand and the TV brands every night at 7:30, and I think that is a success.

Michelle: Robin, you’ve got background with Tudors and a bunch of other shows with the CBC as well as the Vikings. How does that really work, that type of question work for you?

Jeremy: I think the world has changed so much and continues to. You kind of have to obviously embrace that, and right now when we’re launching shows. We use our linear platforms. That initial piece of video was actually an added brand on our linear channels. Pushing to this initiative. Pushing to the digital website, which in turn had a wealth of great content that was pushing back to linear, so it’s a bit of a virtuous circle. In the kind of world of so many choices, we’re just happy to have people engaged and want to reward that, and satisfy our fans.

Shore them up. Get them excited about the return of the show. It’s important you know your objectives. You don’t want to necessarily just push without ultimately knowing where you’re going to, and for us, we’re really trying to push people towards the premier of the show. Letting them know it’s back. Letting them know how it’s changed. Letting them. Teasing what’s coming up. Letting them in on the chance to engage with the favorite elements of the show. For us, we didn’t mind pushing to various platforms, as long as they continued to push people back to the show itself and their love of the show itself.

Jonas: For us it’s a little bit different. You mentioned the objective of managing people who watch our content. When they find our content about video on demands but it’s online, and they watch it. They’ve done the thing they want them to do. For them to drive them also to the other thing, that would be this. It doesn’t make a difference. One might argue we should invite them to tweet about the fact they had watched it because maybe that means more people, but it becomes inauthentic. They’ve done the thing that we want them to do. There’s just no need for us to push them somewhere else.

They had some exceptions where we had some content, sort of complimentary content that was available, a VOD to watch the thing, and then there was like a 3D. There was a VI experience. That was complimentary. That was the one example where we pushed it online, because they just couldn’t offer that on that space, but again, it depends on the objective. My objective is to watch it, watch the thing, thank you very much for doing that. That’s kind of it.

Jeremy: I think I’ll add that for ET Canada, I don’t think we’re ever trying to get viewers to watch the broadcast. Go to etcanada.com, and then return back to the broadcast. I think that … We think that … We think as our TV brand and digital brand is 2 standalone elements. Obviously digital compliments TV, but I think that digital for us release stands on its own. We think of etcanada.com. It’s Facebook community, Twitter, Instagram, so when we’re thinking about how to add a digital components to the broadcast, it’s … Here is the top story of  the night the new story, but then here is the more enhanced version of that story on etcanada.com.

With an added photo gallery, and an extended interview with this celebrity or that individual. I think that’s how they do it.

Michelle: Maybe just wrap up here. Just go quickly, so what are you excited about in the future? What’s the next format you’re excited about? What’s the next project that you’re keen on pushing for?

Robin: Travelers. The second half of Season 4 of Vikings, but I’m just going to return later on this year.

Michelle: It would be interesting to see how are you going to roll out this brand new comment. I think that could be fascinating to see how your community …

Robin: Speaking of. We already know that there’s going to be a season 5, which just … We’ll start shooting next month, and we’re already planning a special digital initiative, which I can’t really get into yet, but this is a probably a year out from launch wherever you plan it that’s going to be.

Michelle: Can you share timelines?

Jeremy: I would say I would go back to live video. I think that Facebook live is going to present some pretty incredible opportunities for not just TV brands. I think of all brands. Once they start trying to figure out how it works for them or if it works for them. The opportunity for TV brand to live broadcast an interview or even a fully produced Facebook show to an audience that could potentially far exceed your broadcast audience, and then realize you’re pretty much not really paying anything for that. That’s incredible. That’s amazing.

Michelle: The disruptor right there.

Jonas: I am excited about figuring out again, stories. What I mean by that is how we … We have these new platforms or newish platforms, Facebook and Facebook Live, VR, and we have to come up with the right type of storytelling for all of these platforms. Because they’re not necessarily the same. The ones we develop in the traditional TV. Sometimes we can just apply it also to another, like Facebook Live might not be the thing that work live on TV. It can also work live on Facebook Live potentially.

In VR, if they come up with a completely different stories, how they work. That, and I think in all the new platforms that we’re going to put together, develop over the next few years. Then to keep reinventing what the story is. None of this is actually going to work without the story. It’s going to be boring. People are just not going to watch it or consume it. That’s actually really, really exciting to come up with new types of storytelling. We’re doing that right now. That’s pretty cool.

I’m excited to do that over the next few years.

Michelle: All right. Thanks, everybody for sticking around through the beeps and blobs and our comments. Hopefully you got something out of it. We really appreciate that you came, and Discoverability. Keep it coming. Thank you.

Women: Thank you.